Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion

[BlackOak2]

As an update from my breeding program.
I have a mare that's throwing agouti-extension foals. She goes back, multiple times to the black belgian that threw Commonality and I do not have any direct Commonality blood, just side lines that produced him.
It really doesn't tell me much and I haven't been able to track down where that agouti-extension comes from yet. I had another black belgian, but known of her offspring or descendants have offered agouti-extension... so I think she probably didn't have the gene necessary.




Her offspring (second one is liable to be replaced, she's had more agouti-extension foals that I've already rehomed):

[BlackOak2]

Still not sure what exactly it means, however I do think this gives more weight to the agouti extension being hidden in the black belgians. This horse goes back to Carla May, the second black belgian I had... her great grandmother on her dam-sire's side. However, she also goes back a couple times to the black belgian stallion that produced Commonality as well.




Carla May

[BlackOak2]

I need a proving-test mare. Agouti or black, fully patterned (or nearly full). Mine aren't covered enough yet.

I suppose the best test mare would be one that carries the leopard switch but no pattern genes? Regardless, I still need an agouti-extended mare.

I picked up this stud from the AC that has thrown decently covered foals. He may prove that the agouti extension is carried by black belgians. Of course I'm not keeping any offspring of his yet. So I have none to show.
He's a single black. I'm not planning on keeping the offspring, I just want to see if he'll throw agouti-extended foals with an appropriately covered mare.
Of course, I could just offer him as open stud. Make my mind up for me.

Huckleberry Tom

[BlackOak2]

...

There really isn't any near-full leopards that aren't chestnut based in sales.
These mares you have... I'd like to cross them over to the AC single black stud and see what he offers. Whenever you get back on. If they don't age out first.

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976

Not interested in keeping foals. Just trying to finish the question of where the agouti extension gene comes from.

To him: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1081189



Plus I have a double black AC belgian I think I want to get rid of: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1080048
He doesn't seem to have any remarkable Lp pattern genes, but he has thrown no red foals, even when paired with chestnut mares.

[Silverine]

...

There really isn't any near-full leopards that aren't chestnut based in sales.
These mares you have... I'd like to cross them over to the AC single black stud and see what he offers. Whenever you get back on. If they don't age out first.

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976

Not interested in keeping foals. Just trying to finish the question of where the agouti extension gene comes from.

To him: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1081189



Plus I have a double black AC belgian I think I want to get rid of: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1080048
He doesn't seem to have any remarkable Lp pattern genes, but he has thrown no red foals, even when paired with chestnut mares.

I actually don't have any space to breed any more mares right now. I can send some or all of these gals to you to breed them if you'd like, though.

[BlackOak2]

There really isn't any near-full leopards that aren't chestnut based in sales.
These mares you have... I'd like to cross them over to the AC single black stud and see what he offers. Whenever you get back on. If they don't age out first.

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976

Not interested in keeping foals. Just trying to finish the question of where the agouti extension gene comes from.

To him: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1081189



Plus I have a double black AC belgian I think I want to get rid of: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1080048
He doesn't seem to have any remarkable Lp pattern genes, but he has thrown no red foals, even when paired with chestnut mares.

I actually don't have any space to breed any more mares right now. I can send some or all of these gals to you to breed them if you'd like, though.

I have room for them, I believe I have room for all of them, including prego room. They'll age out over here. I'm sure you have no problem with that.

Will you have any interest at all in any of the foals? I can hold on to them if you do.

[Silverine]

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976

They're all up for offers. As far as foals, if I could see any of the mixed Knab babies before you rehome that would be great.

[BlackOak2]

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976

They're all up for offers. As far as foals, if I could see any of the mixed Knab babies before you rehome that would be great.

Will do!
Thank you.

[Silverine]

Will do!
Thank you.

They're all yours. Hopefully they'll be helpful.

[BlackOak2]

Will do!
Thank you.

They're all yours. Hopefully they'll be helpful.

I'm certainly hoping they'll prove the gene is at least in these black belgians. I'm now having agouti extension starting to pop up all over in my herd and every one of them goes back at least twice to that original black belgian that grandfathered Commonality.

Crossing this AC belgian into your lines that have almost complete covering... should offer almost complete covering if he has extension beyond his neck. At least, that's what my theory is. The other black belgians I've tried and failed with, usually and most often pop out with butt-blankets or back-extended blankets. This stud, like the original stud, is offering blankets that extend to the stomach and shoulders.
I think we've determined that black-linked pattern genes (or agouti-linked pattern genes)... at least non-chestnut pattern genes... seem to need 'two' copies to spread onto certain areas (more full cups to expand). Unlike chestnut where you can have almost full coverage matching the Lp horse even when crossing into a pattern-less horse.

I suppose it makes better sense in my head!