The game and money

[Argent]

That's funny, because when I reported a game glitch where the competition kept running, the money I won was fairly taken back.

Here's the link to the bugged competition. http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... f=4&t=9049

Ah that does make sense. The last glitch gains I recall were something that couldn't simply undone -- it was related to turns iirc. But money would be easier to correct.

[vallers]

That's funny, because when I reported a game glitch where the competition kept running, the money I won was fairly taken back.

Here's the link to the bugged competition. http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... f=4&t=9049

Ah that does make sense. The last glitch gains I recall were something that couldn't simply undone -- it was related to turns iirc. But money would be easier to correct.

The money from the bugged competition I mentioned was taken away. How long were you gone? I've earned my billion since may.

[Argent]

I've earned my billion since may.

Which is simply not possible based on the limitations of the game, unless there was an unidentified bugged show, or something else going on. The game just does not generate that much money organically.

[vallers]

I've earned my billion since may.

Which is simply not possible based on the limitations of the game, unless there was an unidentified bugged show, or something else going on. The game just does not generate that much money organically.

So essentially you are saying that because I entered high purse player made competitions and won, that I used a game glitch or some other way to cheat and get in game money?

[Bitapetrone]

I believe Argent is implying that the money should not exist, not that people who enter the comps are glitching
themselves. Basically, the money people are winning shouldn't be there to win.

[BlackOak2]

I'm not too sure that the money isn't there.
After all, at this exact moment in time, there are 39250 users. That's a lot of users. Granted a good deal of them may not be active, but each time an account is made, it comes pre-filled with a nominal amount of monies.

Personally, I don't think the game is all that glitchy as far as income is concerned. I do think that there is some advantage to be had with creating competitions, but it is limited.

Personally, I don't like much talk of influx of monies in a game; one because it's not real, does it make that much of a difference? and two, because it always incites a lot of direct, indirect, pot stirring and outright conspiracy arguments.

If it's really that much of a problem, we ask our admins to look into it.
For this game, I see limited 'problem' and see no need for our admins to look into it.
But that's my opinion.

[Bitapetrone]

I'm not too sure that the money isn't there.
After all, at this exact moment in time, there are 39250 users. That's a lot of users. Granted a good deal of them may not be active, but each time an account is made, it comes pre-filled with a nominal amount of monies.

Personally, I don't think the game is all that glitchy as far as income is concerned. I do think that there is some advantage to be had with creating competitions, but it is limited.

Personally, I don't like much talk of influx of monies in a game; one because it's not real, does it make that much of a difference? and two, because it always incites a lot of direct, indirect, pot stirring and outright conspiracy arguments.

If it's really that much of a problem, we ask our admins to look into it.
For this game, I see limited 'problem' and see no need for our admins to look into it.
But that's my opinion.

I think in-game economies can make a huge difference with regards to how people play and what becomes important. It also adds another tier of strategy. Several game companies call in real world economics experts to help them create a stable economy in in their games, so yes, players care about economies. Just because it isn't important to some doesn't mean it isn't important to anyone. I don't see this as so much of a conspiracy theory as some people wondering where these billions came from. I am not so much worried about where it came from as where it will be going.

Here's the problem: There are no serious money dumps in this game. It costs almost nothing to feed each turn and purchasing land/buildings is a one time deal and costs little in the grand scheme of things. Even without this money glitch (which apparently happened while I was on break, so I have no input into how it was handled/if everything was reverted) we would run into this problem eventually anyway because we run out of things to blow money on. People throw around a million for a horse like it is nothing because a million is nothing now. Because everything is so cheap, unless you wish to purchase training or horses from another player, you don't need more money than you can make winning some local shows to sustain a good-sized ranch for a day.

TLDR: We need more money dumps or money will lose its value completely.

[Argent]

I'm not too sure that the money isn't there.
After all, at this exact moment in time, there are 39250 users. That's a lot of users. Granted a good deal of them may not be active, but each time an account is made, it comes pre-filled with a nominal amount of monies.

Personally, I don't think the game is all that glitchy as far as income is concerned. I do think that there is some advantage to be had with creating competitions, but it is limited.

Personally, I don't like much talk of influx of monies in a game; one because it's not real, does it make that much of a difference? and two, because it always incites a lot of direct, indirect, pot stirring and outright conspiracy arguments.

If it's really that much of a problem, we ask our admins to look into it.
For this game, I see limited 'problem' and see no need for our admins to look into it.
But that's my opinion.

Just going by the number of members is never an accurate way to gauge how much money is in the game. Regardless, the total sum from starter money is less than 400 mil.

You can choose to ignore the damage an unbalanced economy causes, but I care about this game and don't want that to happen here.

[BlackOak2]

...

...

Now it certainly sounds that both of you are taking my words inaccurately.
I neither said that there are conspiracy theories or said that economics aren't important. Nor did I say that we don't need a 'money dump'.

I also did not say that the number of people in the game either make up for the amount of money that's in game, and nor did I say it was an accurate way to gauge.

Like both of you I am offering my input, not only to agree or disagree with my points, but to include some other information that can be overlooked.

And alongside that, to remind people not to take it too seriously. A similar issue has already come up once before and it turned into an almost no-holds-barred word-fight.
I do not want to see that again myself. It does not make for a genial community. It makes things awkward and doesn't offer good light to especially new players.

Do not also think that I don't care about the game either. But I also believe we're still in the 'early stages' of the game and we just haven't yet gotten to money dumps being added and food prices being leveled properly and other set up programs such as vet services, possibly shoeing services, training services, that as far as I'm concerned the game is far from complete.

How can an economy be balanced when the economy isn't yet complete?
I also understand that gaming companies call in real-world economic experts to stabilize in-game communities. I actually knew that very well.

I never said that game economics wasn't important and I certainly didn't say it wasn't important to me. What I did say was to not forget about the amount of people we have playing and what they may do on a daily basis. To remember that this is a game and to keep it lighthearted but still in a serious way (although I think that's already been ripped off the board) and mostly to remember that all this discussion is about a game that isn't to a state that may allow for a fully functional and fully balanced economic state.

Since we seem to be a little fond of quick, slightly inaccurate math, I offer this.
If we have just 100 new players and they level from 1 to 7 (because those early levels are a bit easy to gain) and they are able to earn 1500 for the local comps every turn, they only use 6 turns in a single day and earn no additional monies in player made comps, making their own comps, selling horses or training other peoples horses...
In a seven day period, each individual can make about 763,000 (using the same basics that Argent used, for the heck of it).
These 100 newbies alone can earn together 76,3000,000 and roll it right back into the game.
If we were to have 1000 newbies, that can increase the amount to just over three quarters of a million.

What am I saying? I'm saying that new players (because not all new players stick around forever), do have a real affect on our economics and to not forget them. Even if they don't stick around, a new gamer will play a game for a short amount of time before they learn whether it's for them or not and during that time, new players very often dump a lot or even all of their monies right back into the game. It's not too often that they save up their money as they're learning the game.

So why do I offer this? Because you both look as if you misread what I offered, even going so far as to flat out state that I 'can choose to ignore the damage an unbalanced economy causes' and that 'just because it isn't important to some doesn't mean it isn't important to anyone'.

I don't like arguments, I certainly don't like pot-stirrers. But I also don't like being accused of something I didn't do, say or post. I know neither of you like that either; most people don't.

There certainly can be glitches in the game economy. But the amount of money in the game right now, may very well be mostly accounted for. Remember to include in the math, all of the possible variables. That is what should be remembered most.

[Argent]

Since we seem to be a little fond of quick, slightly inaccurate math, I offer this.
If we have just 100 new players and they level from 1 to 7 (because those early levels are a bit easy to gain) and they are able to earn 1500 for the local comps every turn, they only use 6 turns in a single day and earn no additional monies in player made comps, making their own comps, selling horses or training other peoples horses...
In a seven day period, each individual can make about 763,000 (using the same basics that Argent used, for the heck of it).
These 100 newbies alone can earn together 76,3000,000 and roll it right back into the game.
If we were to have 1000 newbies, that can increase the amount to just over three quarters of a million.

Inaccurate numbers here because you don't get 100k for leveling up in the early levels, as far as I can remember. I was a millionaire in the first few days/weeks of the game being open, but I was also level 25+ in a week or so. Averaged out, it's probably 100k per level gained, but I literally have not been in the bottom rung of levels since opening day, so I don't remember exactly.

You're also missing glaringly obvious things like newbies not likely having horses who can win at level 10 comps (I did say that was the *max* you could earn in locals, after all).