.⚝. Show Jump Log

[BlackOak2]

It is interesting to see that Shrouded threw all of the highest speed scores. But shameful with all of the rest of that... ehem... blatantly obvious red. *hides face in embarrassment*


Also interesting that the one's you kept, your horse's in that pairing didn't appear to offer much other with other partners, then the ones you decided to keep.
Was that sheer luck or a conscious decision to keep his over others?

[Eugene]

It is interesting to see that Shrouded threw all of the highest speed scores. But shameful with all of the rest of that... ehem... blatantly obvious red. *hides face in embarrassment*
:lol:

Also interesting that the one's you kept, your horse's in that pairing didn't appear to offer much other with other partners, then the ones you decided to keep.
Was that sheer luck or a conscious decision to keep his over others?

Could you please rephrase that? I have no idea what you're asking me. Probably a conscious decision?

[BlackOak2]

It is interesting to see that Shrouded threw all of the highest speed scores. But shameful with all of the rest of that... ehem... blatantly obvious red. *hides face in embarrassment*


Also interesting that the one's you kept, your horse's in that pairing didn't appear to offer much other with other partners, then the ones you decided to keep.
Was that sheer luck or a conscious decision to keep his over others?

Could you please rephrase that? I have no idea what you're asking me. Probably a conscious decision?

Sorry, let me try again.

I know you rehome a lot of babies. And I'm sure you got a number of them from the mares you paired Shrouded with, with other stallions? Were the babies that popped from the mares with Shrouded as the sire better than the babies that came out of those same mares when paired with another stallion?

Shrouded was paired with Etcetera. Etcetera was also paired with Deathcap (Hen of the Woods).
He was also paired with Tenacity. Tenacity was also paired with Essex (Saxhorn).
Shrouded was also paired with Gumbie. Gumbie was also paired with Cake.
The other foals by those same mares (the ones that you culled already), was the entire bunch rather ugly?

It appears, for the most part, that the foals he produced may have been with mares that were less successful elsewhere?

Is that any clearer?

[Aubergine]

Is that any clearer?

Significantly.
Yes, it does seem that way! I think a lot of it is due to the inbreeding thing; the more related pairs have the same 'recessive' (in quotes bc this game isn't necessarily Mendelian genetics when it comes to stats) weaker genes.

I tend to rotate pairs down a list - each mare gets approximately the same number of chances with each stud that isn't a full or half-sibling. In the case of Shrouded Justice, however, I would wait until I had at least 5 not pregnant before moving him or putting him up for stud briefly. It's possible that some mares had more chances than others, because I wasn't really paying attention to the names as he wasn't related to any of them.

Back to what you were asking, yes. It does seem like the mares who produced better foals with Shrouded Justice were less successful when paired with related stock. I have been going almost exclusively for strength for the last few generations, so any Shrouded Justice foal with an even remotely positive strength comment would have been kept. I do not have enough information recorded though ie. How many foals were culled? What were the stats & sexes of the culled foals? What is the male/female ratio of the foals produced by each pairing? So I can't really draw any conclusions.

In regards to that last one, it does seem like if a horse produces good fillies, they will produce mediocre colts, and vice versa.

[BlackOak2]

Significantly.
Yes, it does seem that way! I think a lot of it is due to the inbreeding thing; the more related pairs have the same 'recessive' (in quotes bc this game isn't necessarily Mendelian genetics when it comes to stats) weaker genes.

I tend to rotate pairs down a list - each mare gets approximately the same number of chances with each stud that isn't a full or half-sibling. In the case of Shrouded Justice, however, I would wait until I had at least 5 not pregnant before moving him or putting him up for stud briefly. It's possible that some mares had more chances than others, because I wasn't really paying attention to the names as he wasn't related to any of them.

Back to what you were asking, yes. It does seem like the mares who produced better foals with Shrouded Justice were less successful when paired with related stock. I have been going almost exclusively for strength for the last few generations, so any Shrouded Justice foal with an even remotely positive strength comment would have been kept. I do not have enough information recorded though ie. How many foals were culled? What were the stats & sexes of the culled foals? What is the male/female ratio of the foals produced by each pairing? So I can't really draw any conclusions.

In regards to that last one, it does seem like if a horse produces good fillies, they will produce mediocre colts, and vice versa.

That, in itself, is still an interesting result! It could've been then, that your herd may've been hitting a little bit of a plateau with the related genes.
If that's the case, the next generation or even the generation after that, may show significant changes... well, 'significant' used a bit loosely, significant to what you've already been getting. But if those changes are good or not... that's the real question.

And also, I've noticed that as well, those that produce good fillies, would never produce a good colt (or like pulling teeth) and vice versa. I've also noticed that when any of those finally got around to producing the opposite gender and it looked good, like really good, that foal grew up to produce nothing but duds for life.

With your production, this may prove Shrouded a better filly-stud then a colt-stud. His other foals he's had, have all been mixed results, the only one I actually kept, is untested, but ready for that. His first foal, a stallion... well... I think somebody snuck a breeding in with him when I had him posted. But, maybe I'm wrong, I do lend out my stock from time to time.

*Very curious about the next two generations. Already was, more so now*

[Aubergine]

G16!

Here are the numbers




The sheet looks a bit different this time around. There were three strains of new blood that I needed to keep track of, so horses of different lineages were highlighted in different colors. The bolded and underlined names are this generation's keepers. Pons will likely also be kept, but I want to test him first. Not everybody got trained this time around. I did my best to focus mostly on higher strength fillies, and filled in the gaps with the best overall lower strength fillies.

The overall scores of this generation were lacking. I expected that going into this phase of the project; there will be a period when scores will need to fall to allow the herd to shift to a new consistent conformation. The in-between stage is admittedly a little painful.

It didn't occur to me until I started transferring mares over that most of the mares I chose to keep are full siblings - In One Ear/Gumption. We'll see how that plays out.

[BlackOak2]

Interesting results... and mixed, just like you said. More interesting that even with the new blood, the times only dropped by a second.

Not really sure what else to take from it however.

Walkabout and Enoki are both interesting. Looks like the filly missed the heart though. And Mazerunner, too. Still not sure what else I'm seeing though. Feels like I'm seeing something... but can't put my finger on the pattern.

[Aubergine]

Gen 18 has been and gone, however I didn't have premium during it so I waited until I could fill out the sheet a bit more to post this.





Ultimately the lack of conformation numbers was a good thing! I found this fancy guy while clicking through the Show Jumping competition results -> MSH Spot the Chips
.
(Well I found a relative of his and poked through that horse's pedigree until I found a stallion up for stud)

He had a lower strength comment than I would have liked, however, he made up for it with speed and a very round bottom. A goal of this generation was to get more sloped hips and move away from the flat hips from my dressage days. Thankfully he played well (mostly) with my horses, and I got Valli Girl and several nice fillies.

I ended up needing to compromise on competition scores and balance BR's, but again, that was expected.

I'm already seeing strength improvements while breeding for G19 - lot's of 'Olympics' comments, and sloped hips that add both strength and balance! We're finally getting somewhere, and as a bonus I get to play with the leopard complex now.

[Eugene]

On to Generation 19! These generations are coming fast; I have premium again and loads of time to procrastinate on assignments.

Here are the numbers



MSH Spot the Chips was a major contributor this time around. All horses highlighted in salmon are descended from him. The numbers in the notes section refer to conformation values gained from specifically "hip angle". Chipper Lies for example has sloped hips that added both strength and balance. The goal of the next few generations is to get both of those numbers up.

[Aubergine]

Generation 20!

Mares

Stallions


Once again, horses highlighted in salmon are descended from MSH Spot the Chips. As you can see his genes are well integrated into the herd at this point. This generation was easy to miss, I think. The herd's body plan is still transitioning, though it is interesting that the stallion with some of the worst balance performed the best. It's not enough yet to know whether going for rounded hips was the right move, but it seems promising.

The mares were diverse enough that I didn't bother with competing them (also it was finals week) so the ones with the best stats were kept on.


And now G. 21!

Mares

Stallions


This generation there were so many mares with the "Olympics" comment (60.5) that I knew I had to separate them through competition. Additionally, almost every competing mare has both balance and strength added by their hips! We'll see if that gets passed along to their offspring, I've found that high strength tends to alternate generations.

The scores are still not great. I have to keep telling myself that change is not pretty, and that there is no universe in which I'll be seeing steadily decreasing average scores in a nice line.