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Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by BlackOak2 »
As an update from my breeding program.
I have a mare that's throwing agouti-extension foals. She goes back, multiple times to the black belgian that threw Commonality and I do not have any direct Commonality blood, just side lines that produced him.
It really doesn't tell me much and I haven't been able to track down where that agouti-extension comes from yet. I had another black belgian, but known of her offspring or descendants have offered agouti-extension... so I think she probably didn't have the gene necessary.
Her offspring (second one is liable to be replaced, she's had more agouti-extension foals that I've already rehomed):
I have a mare that's throwing agouti-extension foals. She goes back, multiple times to the black belgian that threw Commonality and I do not have any direct Commonality blood, just side lines that produced him.
It really doesn't tell me much and I haven't been able to track down where that agouti-extension comes from yet. I had another black belgian, but known of her offspring or descendants have offered agouti-extension... so I think she probably didn't have the gene necessary.
Her offspring (second one is liable to be replaced, she's had more agouti-extension foals that I've already rehomed):
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by BlackOak2 »
Still not sure what exactly it means, however I do think this gives more weight to the agouti extension being hidden in the black belgians. This horse goes back to Carla May, the second black belgian I had... her great grandmother on her dam-sire's side. However, she also goes back a couple times to the black belgian stallion that produced Commonality as well.
Carla May
Carla May
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by BlackOak2 »
I need a proving-test mare. Agouti or black, fully patterned (or nearly full). Mine aren't covered enough yet.
I suppose the best test mare would be one that carries the leopard switch but no pattern genes? Regardless, I still need an agouti-extended mare.
I picked up this stud from the AC that has thrown decently covered foals. He may prove that the agouti extension is carried by black belgians. Of course I'm not keeping any offspring of his yet. So I have none to show.
He's a single black. I'm not planning on keeping the offspring, I just want to see if he'll throw agouti-extended foals with an appropriately covered mare.
Of course, I could just offer him as open stud. Make my mind up for me.
Huckleberry Tom
I suppose the best test mare would be one that carries the leopard switch but no pattern genes? Regardless, I still need an agouti-extended mare.
I picked up this stud from the AC that has thrown decently covered foals. He may prove that the agouti extension is carried by black belgians. Of course I'm not keeping any offspring of his yet. So I have none to show.
He's a single black. I'm not planning on keeping the offspring, I just want to see if he'll throw agouti-extended foals with an appropriately covered mare.
Of course, I could just offer him as open stud. Make my mind up for me.
Huckleberry Tom
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by BlackOak2 »
There really isn't any near-full leopards that aren't chestnut based in sales.Silverine wrote:...
These mares you have... I'd like to cross them over to the AC single black stud and see what he offers. Whenever you get back on. If they don't age out first.
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976
Not interested in keeping foals. Just trying to finish the question of where the agouti extension gene comes from.
To him: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1081189
Plus I have a double black AC belgian I think I want to get rid of: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1080048
He doesn't seem to have any remarkable Lp pattern genes, but he has thrown no red foals, even when paired with chestnut mares.
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by Silverine »
I actually don't have any space to breed any more mares right now. I can send some or all of these gals to you to breed them if you'd like, though.BlackOak2 wrote:There really isn't any near-full leopards that aren't chestnut based in sales.Silverine wrote:...
These mares you have... I'd like to cross them over to the AC single black stud and see what he offers. Whenever you get back on. If they don't age out first.
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976
Not interested in keeping foals. Just trying to finish the question of where the agouti extension gene comes from.
To him: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1081189
Plus I have a double black AC belgian I think I want to get rid of: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1080048
He doesn't seem to have any remarkable Lp pattern genes, but he has thrown no red foals, even when paired with chestnut mares.
Silverine's Guides - Quick Links
Step-by-Step Beginner Guide
Feeding For Weight And Temperament
Quest Breeding Guide
Discipline Potential Evaluation
Evaluating Stud Quality
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by BlackOak2 »
I have room for them, I believe I have room for all of them, including prego room. They'll age out over here. I'm sure you have no problem with that.Silverine wrote:I actually don't have any space to breed any more mares right now. I can send some or all of these gals to you to breed them if you'd like, though.BlackOak2 wrote:
There really isn't any near-full leopards that aren't chestnut based in sales.
These mares you have... I'd like to cross them over to the AC single black stud and see what he offers. Whenever you get back on. If they don't age out first.
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976
Not interested in keeping foals. Just trying to finish the question of where the agouti extension gene comes from.
To him: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1081189
Plus I have a double black AC belgian I think I want to get rid of: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1080048
He doesn't seem to have any remarkable Lp pattern genes, but he has thrown no red foals, even when paired with chestnut mares.
Will you have any interest at all in any of the foals? I can hold on to them if you do.
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by Silverine »
They're all up for offers. As far as foals, if I could see any of the mixed Knab babies before you rehome that would be great.BlackOak2 wrote: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976
Silverine's Guides - Quick Links
Step-by-Step Beginner Guide
Feeding For Weight And Temperament
Quest Breeding Guide
Discipline Potential Evaluation
Evaluating Stud Quality
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- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:41 am
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by BlackOak2 »
Will do!Silverine wrote:They're all up for offers. As far as foals, if I could see any of the mixed Knab babies before you rehome that would be great.BlackOak2 wrote: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/998638
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001636
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001479
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001596
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1001637
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1003976
Thank you.
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Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by Silverine »
They're all yours. Hopefully they'll be helpful.BlackOak2 wrote: Will do!
Thank you.
Silverine's Guides - Quick Links
Step-by-Step Beginner Guide
Feeding For Weight And Temperament
Quest Breeding Guide
Discipline Potential Evaluation
Evaluating Stud Quality
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- Premium
- Posts: 10578
- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:41 am
- Visit My Farm
Re: Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion
Post by BlackOak2 »
I'm certainly hoping they'll prove the gene is at least in these black belgians. I'm now having agouti extension starting to pop up all over in my herd and every one of them goes back at least twice to that original black belgian that grandfathered Commonality.Silverine wrote:They're all yours. Hopefully they'll be helpful.BlackOak2 wrote: Will do!
Thank you.
Crossing this AC belgian into your lines that have almost complete covering... should offer almost complete covering if he has extension beyond his neck. At least, that's what my theory is. The other black belgians I've tried and failed with, usually and most often pop out with butt-blankets or back-extended blankets. This stud, like the original stud, is offering blankets that extend to the stomach and shoulders.
I think we've determined that black-linked pattern genes (or agouti-linked pattern genes)... at least non-chestnut pattern genes... seem to need 'two' copies to spread onto certain areas (more full cups to expand). Unlike chestnut where you can have almost full coverage matching the Lp horse even when crossing into a pattern-less horse.
I suppose it makes better sense in my head!
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