Looking for Other Opinions

[BlackOak2]

Also, I keep forgetting to ask - what do you think of this horse? I know he's double pearl on black, but do you think he also has dun? If he does it's super faint. And if so, which parent do you think he got it from?

I'm waiting on genetic testing as well.

I would assume, even with pearl activated, Blitz's coat would have color-shifted toward gray, like all the other grullos, so I don't believe he has any dun.
I also see no real indicators of either parent having dun as well. The same goes for the grandparents.
There is an unusual almost-body mask to Runway's foal picture, but I'm assuming it's the silver that's offering that appearance. There is also a pseudo-body-mask to Wild Fashion's 4 year old picture, but again, that's from the bay agouti.

But no, these mask-look-alikes do not appear to be dun related.

[Raikit]

I'm waiting on genetic testing as well.

I would assume, even with pearl activated, Blitz's coat would have color-shifted toward gray, like all the other grullos, so I don't believe he has any dun.
I also see no real indicators of either parent having dun as well. The same goes for the grandparents.
There is an unusual almost-body mask to Runway's foal picture, but I'm assuming it's the silver that's offering that appearance. There is also a pseudo-body-mask to Wild Fashion's 4 year old picture, but again, that's from the bay agouti.

But no, these mask-look-alikes do not appear to be dun related.

Cool. I start seeing what looks like a mask and then my eyes just sort of force me to see dun markings everywhere. P: It's nice to have another pair of eyes to check it out.

[Raikit]

I'm waiting on genetic testing as well.

I would assume, even with pearl activated, Blitz's coat would have color-shifted toward gray, like all the other grullos, so I don't believe he has any dun.
I also see no real indicators of either parent having dun as well. The same goes for the grandparents.
There is an unusual almost-body mask to Runway's foal picture, but I'm assuming it's the silver that's offering that appearance. There is also a pseudo-body-mask to Wild Fashion's 4 year old picture, but again, that's from the bay agouti.

But no, these mask-look-alikes do not appear to be dun related.

Cool. I start seeing what looks like a mask and then my eyes just sort of force me to see dun markings everywhere. P: It's nice to have another pair of eyes to check it out.

Here's his second foal from a chestnut. I'm thinking it's a silver amber champagne, but it's also possibly a flaxen gold champagne. Will see as he grows up.





Edit: And considering the dapples showing up on his half-brother I'm going to go ahead and call him as a silver black.

[BlackOak2]

Cool. I start seeing what looks like a mask and then my eyes just sort of force me to see dun markings everywhere. P: It's nice to have another pair of eyes to check it out.

No problem!
After I got done the silver-dapple study, I began seeing dapples on all my horses. I actually started naming a couple brown duns as grullos... I had to go back and fix them.

I'm having that problem with pangare right now.
For instance, these two appear to have pangare:






Meanwhile, these two appear to not have it:





And I have been fooled before, for instance this mare: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1204222
Passed pangare onto a foal.

[BlackOak2]

Here's his second foal from a chestnut. I'm thinking it's a silver amber champagne, but it's also possibly a flaxen gold champagne. Will see as he grows up.



Edit: And considering the dapples showing up on his half-brother I'm going to go ahead and call him as a silver black.

If he's a wild bay or bay, then he can through wild bay, bay, black and even chestnut foals, but will always throw double dilutes with a single cream mare and double dilutes with a single pearl mare.


He does throw some nice looking colors.

[Raikit]

Got my first double-pearl from your girl:




Looks dun to me, though you're more of an expert on that than I am. I'm not good with foal coats on the pearls, so I'm reserving judgement on whether she's brown or black-based.

[BlackOak2]

Got my first double-pearl from your girl:


Looks dun to me, though you're more of an expert on that than I am. I'm not good with foal coats on the pearls, so I'm reserving judgement on whether she's brown or black-based.

Beautiful double pearl! I must say, I'm seriously inclined to fall in love with double pearls. Creams... eh... champagnes, okay... cream & pearl... I'm not much for 'psuedo-pearls'. Ha! But double pearls... Yeah!

I'm inclined to agree that she looks like a dun. There is a 'sheeniness' (yes, I know, NOT a word) that comes across as the foal body mask that I generally see for duns.
But here's my additional thoughts. Brown versus black.
Black I think she'd have a slightly different color if she also had dun. Grullo foals definitely look much different than a non-grullo foal. So if she's definitely black (which I'm leaning more toward that she is, mainly because her entire color is very uniform), then no dun.
HOWEVER... at the same time, I'm more apt to say she's brown. Chances are better that either parent threw the brown agouti gene. Also, although dun can stain a brown coat toward gray, their foal coats are nominally the same variation of brown as a non-dun foal coat.

So my conclusion is: I'm just as bad (and probably worse) than you with pearl coats on foals. At the very least, she'll be quite the looker when she's grown either with or without dun.

[Raikit]

Beautiful double pearl! I must say, I'm seriously inclined to fall in love with double pearls. Creams... eh... champagnes, okay... cream & pearl... I'm not much for 'psuedo-pearls'. Ha! But double pearls... Yeah!

I'm inclined to agree that she looks like a dun. There is a 'sheeniness' (yes, I know, NOT a word) that comes across as the foal body mask that I generally see for duns.
But here's my additional thoughts. Brown versus black.
Black I think she'd have a slightly different color if she also had dun. Grullo foals definitely look much different than a non-grullo foal. So if she's definitely black (which I'm leaning more toward that she is, mainly because her entire color is very uniform), then no dun.
HOWEVER... at the same time, I'm more apt to say she's brown. Chances are better that either parent threw the brown agouti gene. Also, although dun can stain a brown coat toward gray, their foal coats are nominally the same variation of brown as a non-dun foal coat.

So my conclusion is: I'm just as bad (and probably worse) than you with pearl coats on foals. At the very least, she'll be quite the looker when she's grown either with or without dun.

I'm leaning more towards black simply because she doesn't have the usual two-tone face color that I've seen on most brown foals:



While this is most likely due to foal pangare I find that is very unusual to find a bay/brown-based (non-grey) foal without it. I also have never seen it on a black-based foal that did not also have silver.

[Raikit]

Oh, and I thought you'd like this horse. Double pearl on silver brown:

[BlackOak2]

Oh, and I thought you'd like this horse. Double pearl on silver brown:

We'll have to wait until she blows her foal coat. I'm leaning toward black myself. Kind of like 55 to 45 type of split, but factoring in the dun gene changes my thoughts a little. More like 60/40 with dun, favoring brown.
Apparently, I am NOT a gambler!

Very nice silver brown. It has to be those dark eyes in conjunction with the light skin. Maybe it's because light coats always have light eyes that I prefer the contrast better. Light, light, light, light... then WHAM - 'black' eyes.

I've been debating eventually breeding pearl into my low GP project. Silver black grullo's with pearl. But I'm not there yet.