More Dilutes...

[redster]

The first born was an utter failure. Apparently the standing stud I chose off the market and my mare didn't meld well. I bred them again, so I'll see if that pair will give a better offspring.

Regardless, my personal stock did produce a much better outcome. A filly. I wanted to send you a colt, since a colt can be bred a number of additional times; a filly has a much more limited amount of breedings. Anyway, come collect her when you have the chance (your choice of price, we didn't discuss one after all).

I'll let you know if the second breeding and proceeding foal offers anything worthy or not. Or you can just tell me that one is plenty and I'll just rehome it.

I rarely buy horses, so I really had no idea what to send. Hope it was okay!

And yeah, let me know how the second one goes, but I'm also fine with just having the girl and trying my hand at a different breeding strategy for the first time. And do you have any further advice on how you would proceed with her from here?

[BlackOak2]

I rarely buy horses, so I really had no idea what to send. Hope it was okay!

And yeah, let me know how the second one goes, but I'm also fine with just having the girl and trying my hand at a different breeding strategy for the first time. And do you have any further advice on how you would proceed with her from here?

Yeah, the price was fine. I would've accepted a free bid as well, but anything over what you offered I would've asked you to resend it for lower. If there's available funds, the amount you offered I find acceptable even for the worst horses, in most instances.

Now that I've been working on the heavy arab line, I might have some advice. If you're working toward a 'very heavy' mongolian line, then I suggest the following guidelines:

Long Process (works best if there's a way to freeze stock and assuming such)
Breed her out once to each stallion you have available.
Evaluate each foal she offers against both her and the stud. Set aside the foals that are above both size and type of the lower of the scores for each parent.
Example:
Mare size/type:
60
50
Stud size/type:
55
54
Foal size/type:
56
51
(This foal set aside)
Same parents, Foal size/type:
65
49
(This foal rehome)

Only those studs that you set the foal aside for, rebreed to her again.
If you succeed in getting a foal that matches or exceeds the higher numbers of the higher parent and also exceeds the lower number of lower parent, then this foal is breeding material and you don't need to rebreed these two parents.

Once you get at least two foals from two studs, set the mare on freeze. This mare contains half of the heavy-leaning genes from the work on my project line, so it may be necessary to inject her genes multiple times to ensure they stick well.
Take the foals and do the same process as you just did with the mare. If you can't seem to get an acceptable foal from any of the matches after three tries, rebreed another three times and save the best foal from those three. This 'best of' foal should be bred to the mare in the same process.
This process should continue until you're at the size and type you want. It's very difficult to maintain a size and type in the 90's consistently, especially when introducing new blood. So I will explain the new blood introduction below.

Short Process (if there's no ability to freeze stock)
The process isn't too different from the long process, this just works with the inability to re-utilize the original mare.
Take the mare and breed her to each stud you have twice. Save the best foal of each stud, favoring example to follow (with the exception of saving both foals if their size and type both best the heavier of both parents).
By the time your foals are of breeding age and you're out of usable studs, this mare may not be alive anymore. Since you're limited to the genes the mare offered in her foals, take the best two foals from her you have (the best filly and the best colt, regardless of if they're siblings) and breed repeatedly until you get a foal that bests both parents (or is the best you'll get, i.e. save one until you get a better replacement). This foal will be the horse that will take the place of the frozen mare in the Long Process.

Example
Mare size/type:
60
50
Stud size/type:
55
54
Foal #1 size/type:
61
52
Foal #2 size/type:
59
56
Figuring out which foal is better is really a difficult thing to decide. I have found that size is much harder to build up over type, however, choosing the size over type isn't necessarily the appropriate choice. Of the two foals above, I would personally choose to keep foal #2 over foal #1, because there is more overall movement in the scores. Foal #1 has an increase of one on size on the higher end and an increase of two on type on the lower end, however, foal #2 has an increase of four on size on the lower end and in increase of two of type on the higher end. So although foal #2 looks worse than foal #1, the second foal should have (arguably) the better genes to work with. Hopefully, anyway. A lot of it is still guesswork since we can't see all the genes involved.

In reality, the long process really should be the quicker of the two, since you can inject the original genes back into your line when the need arises, while the short process works with limited luck of what genes you can get to pass on.

New Blood Introduction
Introducing new blood can very easily screw up and loose the heavy-leaning genes in just a single generation. But it won't necessarily do so, as long as you remember to dilute the new blood rather than increase it.
The way I handle the dilution (which has been working quite well for me), is never breed new blood offspring or their children together.
Example:
New Blood mare
Heavy stud
Note the foal as 'blooded' in their notes.
Breed 'blooded' horse to another heavy horse.
Note the foal as 'bloodline' in their notes.
Breed 'bloodline' horse to another heavy horse.
This foal has been integrated into your heavy mongolian line and can be bred to whatever you choose.
Never breed a New Blood, a 'blooded', or a 'bloodline' horse to each other.

Hopefully I covered everything I needed and my suggestions are legible. I'm feeling a little thick in the head today and thoughts aren't flowing like they usually do, so if something doesn't make sense, please ask so I can define it better.

I'll let you know on that other foal, and if you need a fresh injection of heavy-blood before my project is opened for public use, let me know, I'll provide another foal for you. That mare should have enough sticky, heavy-leaning genes to work for the mongolians. Right now the project can officially make medium weight foals regularly, but after that single generation, they don't stick (when bred back to a light horse type, they go back to being light horse types), but then again, I'm using arabians as my focus light-weight breed, so I'm probably using the most extreme genes to fight against.

[BlackOak2]

...

It's a second filly.
Take a look at her.
It'll be up to you if you want her or not, just let me know.
If you are interested, you can take her for free if you want.

[redster]

Hopefully I covered everything I needed and my suggestions are legible. I'm feeling a little thick in the head today and thoughts aren't flowing like they usually do, so if something doesn't make sense, please ask so I can define it better.

I'll let you know on that other foal, and if you need a fresh injection of heavy-blood before my project is opened for public use, let me know, I'll provide another foal for you. That mare should have enough sticky, heavy-leaning genes to work for the mongolians. Right now the project can officially make medium weight foals regularly, but after that single generation, they don't stick (when bred back to a light horse type, they go back to being light horse types), but then again, I'm using arabians as my focus light-weight breed, so I'm probably using the most extreme genes to fight against.

Oh, this helps immensely! I understood most of it when looking over it briefly, but I'm also foggy-headed right now (new years fireworks outside all night, and then girlfriend's shoulder randomly dislocating in the middle of the night, made for no sleep). I'll save the instructions, and will let you know if I need anything clarified at any point. I'm a very slow-moving player, so it will be a while before I get to really put the instructions to the test.

And for that new filly, I worry about that low body size. I already have such a problem with that in all my Tarpan-based breeds. I might just stick with the first girl, unless you suggest I try this second girl as well anyway.

[BlackOak2]

Oh, this helps immensely! I understood most of it when looking over it briefly, but I'm also foggy-headed right now (new years fireworks outside all night, and then girlfriend's shoulder randomly dislocating in the middle of the night, made for no sleep). I'll save the instructions, and will let you know if I need anything clarified at any point. I'm a very slow-moving player, so it will be a while before I get to really put the instructions to the test.

And for that new filly, I worry about that low body size. I already have such a problem with that in all my Tarpan-based breeds. I might just stick with the first girl, unless you suggest I try this second girl as well anyway.

You have emphasized my worry about that second filly as well. I'll just rehome her and if or when you need another heavy breeder, just let me know and I'll get you another.

Hopefully you can get some sleep to clear your head at some point. And good luck for your girlfriend; dislocating shoulder issues are not fun to live with.

[redster]

You have emphasized my worry about that second filly as well. I'll just rehome her and if or when you need another heavy breeder, just let me know and I'll get you another.

Hopefully you can get some sleep to clear your head at some point. And good luck for your girlfriend; dislocating shoulder issues are not fun to live with.

Sounds great. I'm looking forward to giving this whole process a try. Thank you again for all your help, and I'm sure I'll see you around the forum for one thing or another again soon.

[BlackOak2]

You have emphasized my worry about that second filly as well. I'll just rehome her and if or when you need another heavy breeder, just let me know and I'll get you another.

Hopefully you can get some sleep to clear your head at some point. And good luck for your girlfriend; dislocating shoulder issues are not fun to live with.

Sounds great. I'm looking forward to giving this whole process a try. Thank you again for all your help, and I'm sure I'll see you around the forum for one thing or another again soon.