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Brand New... Tried the Guides but Still Need Help

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ArcticDahlia
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Brand New... Tried the Guides but Still Need Help

Post by ArcticDahlia »

Hello! I joined the game a few days ago and I've been trying to read the guides while playing the game, but haven't had much luck figuring out what any of their colors may be. I pick the most unique ones I fine from the Adoption Centre and randomly breed them, but I can't pinpoint what color any of they or their foals are...
BlackOak2
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Re: Brand New... Tried the Guides but Still Need Help

Post by BlackOak2 »

ArcticDahlia wrote:Hello! I joined the game a few days ago and I've been trying to read the guides while playing the game, but haven't had much luck figuring out what any of their colors may be. I pick the most unique ones I fine from the Adoption Centre and randomly breed them, but I can't pinpoint what color any of they or their foals are...
Learning the colors is a long learning curve. It takes time to get there. It took all of us time. So don't be too concerned that you're a bit stuck. :D
Start slowly, learn your basics then build on top of them. Chestnut and black are the bases.
Then you have agouti on that.
Once you learn those, add in the pangare and dun and roan plus the other genes like silver.
Leave the dilutes (champagne, pearl, cream) for last.

Okay, so I'll give you a quick rundown on your farm now.
Gaia appears to be a classic cream possibly with dun. Champagne, which this mare has, will always have freckles.
Shathar is most likely a smoky cream, that's two creams. So he'll always throw a cream gene, buckskins, palominos, that sort. And after looking at his foals, particularly the brown one that is apparently NOT a smoky brown, I agree with you that there is at least one pearl gene. It's on black though.
Aila is a red dun roan.
Shira is a silver bay dun. See that silver mane and tail? That is an indicator of silver.
Anakin appears to be a flaxen cremello.
Aspen is a bit young. It's easiest to tell when they blow their foal coat at a year. But from the look of both parents, a palomono.
The unnamed stallion, ID 2428732, is a blue roan. He may or may not carry cream.
Keana looks like a classic cream, but I think she's a sable cream, the difference is classic is on black and sable is on brown.
Leviathan is a red dun.
Unnamed filly, ID 2427394, is a brown.
Lea could be either bay or brown. I'm leaning a little toward bay.

Another note. All of our paint markings, including facial markings and socks are all caused by the tobiano gene.
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ArcticDahlia
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:27 pm
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Re: Brand New... Tried the Guides but Still Need Help

Post by ArcticDahlia »

BlackOak2 wrote:
ArcticDahlia wrote:Hello! I joined the game a few days ago and I've been trying to read the guides while playing the game, but haven't had much luck figuring out what any of their colors may be. I pick the most unique ones I fine from the Adoption Centre and randomly breed them, but I can't pinpoint what color any of they or their foals are...
Learning the colors is a long learning curve. It takes time to get there. It took all of us time. So don't be too concerned that you're a bit stuck. :D
Start slowly, learn your basics then build on top of them. Chestnut and black are the bases.
Then you have agouti on that.
Once you learn those, add in the pangare and dun and roan plus the other genes like silver.
Leave the dilutes (champagne, pearl, cream) for last.

Okay, so I'll give you a quick rundown on your farm now.
Gaia appears to be a classic cream possibly with dun. Champagne, which this mare has, will always have freckles.
Shathar is most likely a smoky cream, that's two creams. So he'll always throw a cream gene, buckskins, palominos, that sort. And after looking at his foals, particularly the brown one that is apparently NOT a smoky brown, I agree with you that there is at least one pearl gene. It's on black though.
Aila is a red dun roan.
Shira is a silver bay dun. See that silver mane and tail? That is an indicator of silver.
Anakin appears to be a flaxen cremello.
Aspen is a bit young. It's easiest to tell when they blow their foal coat at a year. But from the look of both parents, a palomono.
The unnamed stallion, ID 2428732, is a blue roan. He may or may not carry cream.
Keana looks like a classic cream, but I think she's a sable cream, the difference is classic is on black and sable is on brown.
Leviathan is a red dun.
Unnamed filly, ID 2427394, is a brown.
Lea could be either bay or brown. I'm leaning a little toward bay.

Another note. All of our paint markings, including facial markings and socks are all caused by the tobiano gene.
Oh wow, thank you so much for the help! That gives me a really great starting point with learning :D I'm really only breed NABs and figuring out genetics for now, and I read in one guide that these were the color/code possibilities for the breed:
A+/A+, A+/A, A+/At, A+/a (Wild Bay)
A/A, A/At, A/a (Bay)
At/At, At/a (Brown)
a/a (Black)
E/E, E/e (black-based)
e/e (red-based, chestnut)
F/F, F/f (Not Flaxen)
f/f (Flaxen)
Z/Z, Z/z (Silver)
Sty/Sty, Sty/sty (Sooty)
Cr/Cr (Double Cream) | Cr/n (Single Cream)
Pr/n (Single Pearl) | Pr/Pr (Double Pearl) | Cr/Pr (Cream-Pearl)
P/P, P/p (Mealy/Pangare)
D/D, D/d (Dun) | d/d (not dun)
Rn/Rn, Rn/rn (Roan)
Ch/Ch, Ch/ch (Champagne)
Tg/Tg (Double Tiger-Eye) | Tg/tg (Single Tiger-Eye)
Is this still relevant? And I guess genes starting with capital letters are dominant and lowercase are recessive, so how do you write it out for a horse with several recessive genes? For example, for Shathar, I'd think it would be Cr/Cr, but if he has pearl and black as well would that make it something like Cr/Cr/Pr/a/a? I can tell that's wrong already but I have no idea how it would be written...
BlackOak2
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Re: Brand New... Tried the Guides but Still Need Help

Post by BlackOak2 »

ArcticDahlia wrote:


Oh wow, thank you so much for the help! That gives me a really great starting point with learning :D I'm really only breed NABs and figuring out genetics for now, and I read in one guide that these were the color/code possibilities for the breed:
A+/A+, A+/A, A+/At, A+/a (Wild Bay)
A/A, A/At, A/a (Bay)
At/At, At/a (Brown)
a/a (Black)
E/E, E/e (black-based)
e/e (red-based, chestnut)
F/F, F/f (Not Flaxen)
f/f (Flaxen)
Z/Z, Z/z (Silver)
Sty/Sty, Sty/sty (Sooty)
Cr/Cr (Double Cream) | Cr/n (Single Cream)
Pr/n (Single Pearl) | Pr/Pr (Double Pearl) | Cr/Pr (Cream-Pearl)
P/P, P/p (Mealy/Pangare)
D/D, D/d (Dun) | d/d (not dun)
Rn/Rn, Rn/rn (Roan)
Ch/Ch, Ch/ch (Champagne)
Tg/Tg (Double Tiger-Eye) | Tg/tg (Single Tiger-Eye)
Is this still relevant? And I guess genes starting with capital letters are dominant and lowercase are recessive, so how do you write it out for a horse with several recessive genes? For example, for Shathar, I'd think it would be Cr/Cr, but if he has pearl and black as well would that make it something like Cr/Cr/Pr/a/a? I can tell that's wrong already but I have no idea how it would be written...
Yup, for the most part that ancient breed guide is correct. There's a few corrections noted in the replies, but if memory serves. There is just one correction to this. Pearl is a recessive and for the most part on the game is represented as pr/pr and not Pr/Pr.
And also, for the most part, the capitol letters DO indicate dominant and lowercase GENERALLY indicates recessive. Keep in mind, however, that there are some genes, like the dilutes of champagne, cream and pearl, that if the gene doesn't exist, then the lower case 'n' is used. I used to remember the reasoning. I no longer do. Think of the lower case 'n' as standing for 'nonexistent' or 'non-carrier'.
They way you choose to write a gene code, is something of personal preference. I always suggest that you write it up the way YOU can read it, not others. Once you start getting the hang of it, then you can rewrite it for the benefit of others if you wish to. For the most part, the HWO community that cares about gene codes, can figure your notes out.

To write up a gene code, using Shathar as an example:
Shathar is most likely a smoky cream, that's two creams. So he'll always throw a cream gene, buckskins, palominos, that sort. And after looking at his foals, particularly the brown one that is apparently NOT a smoky brown, I agree with you that there is at least one pearl gene. It's on black though.
Start with base color first: E/- (in this case the dash indicates an unknown black extension, either for red or for black. Then apply the modifiers (dun, pangare, roan, etc.). He doesn't have any though. And finally apply the dilutions: Cr/pr
So his gene coding might look something like: E/- Cr/pr
Or: E/-; Cr/pr
Or Even: E-/Crpr
Or: E- Crpr
There's a couple different ways you can manage it. But like I said, write it up so it's easy for YOU to read, not anybody else.
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ArcticDahlia
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Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:27 pm
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Re: Brand New... Tried the Guides but Still Need Help

Post by ArcticDahlia »

Oh okay! That explanation actually cleared up a lot, thank you so much :D I'm really sorry, I don't mean to keep bugging you, but there are two things I'm still wondering... in the case of unknown extensions like with Shathar (which I'm pretty sure you can only see from his progeny if I'm not mistaken), can the unknown extensions be "found" if he has more offspring with color variants than narrow down the gene? Basically, can the blanks be filled. And the last one, where do spots come from? White patches are from the tobiano gene but I've seen some purebred NABs with appaloosa like spots. Is that a random rare gene or a recessive chance gene? I really want to breed some spotted NABs but don't know where to start
BlackOak2
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Re: Brand New... Tried the Guides but Still Need Help

Post by BlackOak2 »

ArcticDahlia wrote:Oh okay! That explanation actually cleared up a lot, thank you so much :D I'm really sorry, I don't mean to keep bugging you, but there are two things I'm still wondering... in the case of unknown extensions like with Shathar (which I'm pretty sure you can only see from his progeny if I'm not mistaken), can the unknown extensions be "found" if he has more offspring with color variants than narrow down the gene? Basically, can the blanks be filled. And the last one, where do spots come from? White patches are from the tobiano gene but I've seen some purebred NABs with appaloosa like spots. Is that a random rare gene or a recessive chance gene? I really want to breed some spotted NABs but don't know where to start
We, the community, don't really mind that much about being bothered when asking questions. We all had to start somewhere and as long as you're showing forward progress, we are More Than Willing to help! :mrgreen:

Sometimes unknown genes can be diagnosed with offspring. Sometimes not. Sometimes it's a founding of what's left. To determine a double black, it's almost impossible. Really, the only thing you can be certain of, is if that horse throws a red with a red mate. Which only then says that the potential double black (E/E) is not a double black, but is a hetrozygous black (E/e).
Just because, in this case, a suspected double black never throws a red foal, does not prove that he or she is a double black. It only means that the 50/50 chance of a red foal (with a red mate) always ever landed on the black side.

Then, there is the case of pearl-cream suspects. If you think your horse is a pearl-cream and not a double cream, then you need only breed that horse to a non-cream carrier, so a straight black, brown, bay or chestnut. Since black can hide a cream gene, I recommend sticking to bay or chestnut. Bay with a cream would be buckskin and chestnut with a cream would be palomino. If your suspect cream-pearl carrier throws any foal that appears to be a 'normal' color, then your horse is likely a cream-pearl and not a double cream.

So there are chances you can diagnose the unknown genes in your coding, or not. After a number of generational breeding, you can also assume that certain things are 'bred out' if they stop showing up. For instance, breeding for double blacks, if after four generations, the reds haven't shown up, there is a good chance that you have a number of double blacks floating in your herd.

Okay, now for appaloosa. The spots. On this game, the only spots that occur (and not the dapples) are all caused by the leopard complex gene. You will need to breed your NAB herd to somebody that already shows the spots in some form, either varnish, snowflakes or blanket. In this game, things like 'birdspots' do not exist (or not yet exist).

In my signature is a link to my quick-links. There nearer the bottom is the color section that has the links to certain gene-color releases. So you can read up on the leopard complex gene. Here's another link to my quick-links:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20197

But to answer your question directly, the original release of the leopard complex will be enough:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4135
You will need a tarpan or a shetland. If you want to keep more of the horse-style look of the NAB, I recommend sticking with the tarpans and not the shetlands.

As you get further into it and have more questions, the community will help you where and when they can. :mrgreen:
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