Question/Poll regarding "New Bloodline" horses

[EclipticEnd]

I've had this question floating in my head for a while now and I'm curious on your opinions. I feel like this'll help me in the future for when I reach the more popular breeds in my quests to breed all of the breeds in the game.

When we talk about "New Blood" or "New Bloodlines" we tend to mean horses that aren't related to current lines. This could be a new line of Belgians that aren't related to the big name Belgians, and this could be a new set of Thoroughbreds that don't come from TB ancestry.

I'm particularly curious about made horses. By this I mean horses that you have to make, such as Thoroughbreds, and not horses that can instantly be obtained, such as Arabians or Belgians from the AC.

Using Thoroughbreds as an example, which is better: making a new TB from AC horses or making a new TB from multi-generational horses that don't immediately have any TB progeny?

There's pros and cons to each method. Using AC stock guarantees an actual brand new bloodline, but the created horse probably will be in the 30-40k HGP zone and probably won't have the sought-after 60+ speed conformation. Using pre-existing stock means you can get higher HGP and better conformations, but there's probably a good chance that a TB line might exist from those lineages already, and therefore it wouldn't truly be a "new" line.

For you breeders out there who deal with things like this more often than I, which of the above would be the more valuable horse? One that definitely isn't related to any other of the breed, or one that might be, but scores better statistically? If you had the opportunity, which would you choose and why?

[longhi.pouncer]

Interesting question, I was curious about the answer

[BlackOak2]

For me, it comes down to what I know about the existing lines (both the breed and the breeds that make it) and what I'm looking to make it into.

If I'm looking for a new bloodline and to get away from all of the current troubles that the current blood has, I may go so far as to pick up breeds from further back than just the parent breeds. In this way, most of the current problems are likely NOT a part of these further back breeds. Then I'll get to the new blood and maybe cross out to a select grade that I know has good, strong genes that I need.

However, when I'm looking to just 'Get There', I'll start from scratch. Scratch can be quite valuable even if they're far less on-paper than the blood that's currently available. COI control is one of the biggest values in such scratch blood.

Mostly, it comes down to what the person is looking for. If they want a ready-made, then new blood from parent breeds will suffice. But for somebody that has already tried all of the blood out there, they'll be looking for new blood that's a bit further back in development (grand-parent breeds or before).

Plus, never underestimate the usefulness of grades. You can build a fresh, from-scratch breed and then breed it to the grade to fix the on-paper uglies. And that usually doesn't take long at all. About three generations and your new blood is just where it should be, to be a viable sale horse.

Total summary, however... there will always be interest in from-scratch breeds and solely because they're brand new if nothing else. Will such from-scratch blood sell for a similar price as current high, on-paper or competitive stock? Maybe if they're low in population or the breed is being... hoarded by certain select members. But no, not usually, unless the current blood is great on-paper but your new blood is already proven competitors or competitor producers.

[BlackOak2]

*Assuming a lot of specialization wasn't done.

[rosie0922]

I've had this question floating in my head for a while now and I'm curious on your opinions. I feel like this'll help me in the future for when I reach the more popular breeds in my quests to breed all of the breeds in the game.

When we talk about "New Blood" or "New Bloodlines" we tend to mean horses that aren't related to current lines. This could be a new line of Belgians that aren't related to the big name Belgians, and this could be a new set of Thoroughbreds that don't come from TB ancestry.

I'm particularly curious about made horses. By this I mean horses that you have to make, such as Thoroughbreds, and not horses that can instantly be obtained, such as Arabians or Belgians from the AC.

Using Thoroughbreds as an example, which is better: making a new TB from AC horses or making a new TB from multi-generational horses that don't immediately have any TB progeny?

There's pros and cons to each method. Using AC stock guarantees an actual brand new bloodline, but the created horse probably will be in the 30-40k HGP zone and probably won't have the sought-after 60+ speed conformation. Using pre-existing stock means you can get higher HGP and better conformations, but there's probably a good chance that a TB line might exist from those lineages already, and therefore it wouldn't truly be a "new" line.

For you breeders out there who deal with things like this more often than I, which of the above would be the more valuable horse? One that definitely isn't related to any other of the breed, or one that might be, but scores better statistically? If you had the opportunity, which would you choose and why?

I am working with several rare breeds right now and have done it both ways and my observation is that oftentimes no one is as interested in your chosen rare breed as you are until as Black Oak observes, the horses are viable competitors. Also, I'm guilty of not being able to rehome easily and general faffing about, so for me the process of getting them where I want is slow and involves lots of experimental breed crossing (take my Indian Country Breds for example) which were bred from scratch years ago at this point and I'm still messing with them.

Also, I think new bloodlines of any breed absolutely have legitimacy as a way to prevent stagnation; however, the work probably won't be lucrative until *again* that point of competitive usefulness is reached. That being said, for players that are working with rare horses, many of the current Thoroughbreds that were bred solely for racing are not very useful for breed recipes because the evaluation doesn't work. I struggle to find even a 2* Thoroughbred for any new project I start.

[EclipticEnd]

Total summary, however... there will always be interest in from-scratch breeds and solely because they're brand new if nothing else. Will such from-scratch blood sell for a similar price as current high, on-paper or competitive stock? Maybe if they're low in population or the breed is being... hoarded by certain select members. But no, not usually, unless the current blood is great on-paper but your new blood is already proven competitors or competitor producers.

Also, I think new bloodlines of any breed absolutely have legitimacy as a way to prevent stagnation; however, the work probably won't be lucrative until *again* that point of competitive usefulness is reached. That being said, for players that are working with rare horses, many of the current Thoroughbreds that were bred solely for racing are not very useful for breed recipes because the evaluation doesn't work. I struggle to find even a 2* Thoroughbred for any new project I start.

Thank you both for your answers! They're both very informative on this subject.